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Asus Eee in K-12 Education
Howdy, just started a group for bookmark sharing and discussion about the Asus Eee in education. I'm really curious about getting this going in Texas and using it for 1to1 (such as Vision 20/20 tech immersion grant) as well as online TAKS testing. Jump in and share what you know there.
http://groups.diigo.com/groups/k12asuseee
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Thought you would be interested in joining this conversation.
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I looked at these when I wrote a grant. I think with all of the tools that Google is coming up with and my classes use of other online tools this could work.
I did not put any kind of office on my new Powerbook to see if I can work around using a downloaded office product. It seems to be working so far.
The one concern I had was the size of the keyboard....
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I oversee a 1:1 and I try and purchase a machine to last all three years the students are going to use the machine. Realizing bigger better and faster is always the norm, does this machine allow you to effectively use the machine for three years? I have not used one of the machines before. Our school uses 1:1 across the board. Would this product be able to replicate a iMovie type program as effectively with the limited capacities? I know our student accounts are running well over 2GB in some cases.
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Thanks Miguel, I am really interested in this conversation. It has been a hot topic between teachers here to attend MS conference in Hanoi this week and I'm sure that will continue.
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I was thinking of using Voice Thread which is totally on the Internet. If you use Google Docs then you don't have to worry about student accounts.
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If you're considering using the Asus Eee in K-12 education, you might join the conversation (and the Group by the same name). More info here....
http://groups.diigo.com/groups/k12asuseee
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I ran across this post and remembered this message board. I thought I'd share it for your consideration in the spirit of critical review (Does not necessarily reflect my view or opinion.).
http://mrmoses.org/?p=281
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Here's a question...use the Linux version, the XP version, or wait for the 9" version coming soon?
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Art, I'd wait for the upcoming 9" version!
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That was my thought as well. With the number of systems coming out on this level, it's going to be tough writing up a tech budget request without second guessing yourself the entire time.
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We're looking at the eee PC and the OLPC XO as alternatives to fill an niche in instances where all the features of a full XP laptop may not be required.
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Just been looking at the $ 100 one laptop per school version; doesn't appear to be very robust but maybe I'm just suspicious
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Sharon, I don't think the OLPC XO is worth the effort...I prefer the Asus Eee. The only question that remains is whether the Asus Eee can be used for online testng in Texas. If so, then it's a winner and worth it (we're all using web apps anyways). If not, Dell can quote you a $664 laptop that's not bad...and they could go even further down if you sacrifice some features.
I like the Asus Eee, though. I'd buy one but one more piece of equipment means one more thing to carry!
8- >
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What have you found about the online testing issue, Miguel? I have heard that there are screen size requirements for online testing in Texas...is that true? If so, does anyone know what the specs are?
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The screen size requirements are 800x600 minimum, 1024x768 preferred. The Asus Eee isn't quite there. I still have my hopes, though.
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The upcoming 9-inch version is reported to have that resolution, but we'll see what the pricing is.
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On November 8, 2007, Fresno Unified School District, in Fresno, California announced a digital portfolio and laptop pilot program, in which 16 schools will use the mini-laptops in the classroom at a ratio of one laptop for every two students. Eventually the district expects that all 78,000 students will create and manage their own web-based portfolios from kindergarten through 12th grade.[54]
Source: Wikipedia
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This message from Stephanie Sandifer (Change Agency Blog, Texas).
I am a huge advocate for implementing 1:1 with Asus Eee portables, but in recent F2F discussion with a colleague I was challenged to defend why the Asus Eee would be a better alternative to the current district standard laptop specifications.
For the purpose of this discussion, the typical "standard laptop specs" in my district include: HP 6910p (Intel Core 2 Duo T7100, 1.8 GHz, Dual Core, 2MBL2 Cache; 1 GB, DDR2 667MHz SDRAM, 1 DIMM +1 open slot; 80 GB Hard Drive, 5400rpm SATA); Apple MacBook (current specs not listed on district website, but usually matches current minimum specs on MacBook as listed on Apple Store website); Latitude D630 (Intel Core 2 Duo T7100, 1.8 GHz, Dual Core, 2MBL2 Cache; 1 GB, DDR2 667MHz SDRAM, 1 DIMM + 1 open slot; 80 GB Hard Drive, 5400rpm SATA); Lenovo ThinkPad R61 (Intel Core 2 Duo T7100, 1.8 GHz, Dual Core, 2MBL2 Cache; 1 GB, DDR2 667MHz SDRAM, 1 DIMM + 1 open slot ; 80 GB Hard Drive, 5400rpm SATA)
All standard specs listed above come with standard district load that includes Windows XP and most recent MS Office Suite of applications (Word, PPT, Excel, Access, Frontpage).
So I am putting this out here as a discussion for us to explore "talking points" when it comes to trying to push this idea within our districts.
Specifically, I have some guiding questions that may help direct the discussion:
1. Life cycles -- will the Asus Eee match or exceed current laptop life cycles (of 3 to 5 years)? (Personally, to me this is not an issue because if the current lifecycle of our laptops is only 3 to 5 years, then I don't see why we shouldn't consider a high school 1:1 program where students are issued a laptop in 9th grade and then are awarded the laptop at graduation if they graduate on time.)
2. Microsoft Office as business standard office suite -- How can we say we are preparing our students for college and careers if they aren't using the "industry-standard" software? (I hate this question, but it does come up in these discussions with non-believers.)
3. Wear & Tear -- Similar to the "life cycle" issue -- what kind of wear & tear can we expect with the Asus Eee vs. current standard laptops? This also includes a question about what kinds of demands the use of this laptop will place on tech support when there are software issues?
4. Cost of Asus Eee = "cheap" -- this flies in the face of "status quo" thinking about quality and craftsmanship. What talking points will help advocates challenge this embedded way-of-thinking about cost vs. quality?
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Interesting conversation going on regarding the Asus Eee and its use in education. Join the conversation and share what you know....
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Ugh, just lost a 5 paragraph reply when I clicked Add Reply. Anybody know why that might be?
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Just lost it again - is there a character limit or a time out?
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Let's try this reply again . . .
1 & 3: In limited testing at another high school in my district, the eeePC's seem to be as durable or more durable than our Dell Latitude laptops. The smaller size (fits on a student desk better), less weight, and the enclosure seems to protect them fairly well. I agree, at a 4-year high school a 4-year life cycle seems about right. As far as tech support, the eee's have a built-in reset to the original Linux image - our tech folks believe there will be less support with these than with Dells or Macs. We'll have to see on the durability issue - whether they hold up for 3-5 years, including how long the batteries last. But our Dell batteries certainly aren't lasting 3-5 years either . . .
2: You can't win an argument with anyone that puts forth this argument, but the response is that we don't teach MS Office, we teach writing, communicating, presenting, analyzing data, etc. Students that learn how to do those are set even as the tools change - they're adaptable and can learn whatever tool is the most appropriate when they need to. Students that learn where to find a command in Office 2003 only know how to find that command in Office 2003.
4: Negroponte makes this argument about Moore's Law - you can either double performance for the same price, or keep the same performance for half the price. As more and more apps and abilities move online, the biggest hurdle is access (a device for every student) and bandwidth, not processor speed. Now, I agree if "cheap" doesn't refer to cost but to quality, then that's an issue. We'll have to see how the eee's hold up over time. But, theoretically, using established technology that is not the latest and greatest may actually have a higher quality/reliability than the latest and greatest from Dell/Apple.
I think if the folks making the argument are willing to put up the dollars to give every student a Dell or Mac then great. If I had a choice, I would still pick a Mac over a eeePC because you can do more (specifically things like video editing). But assuming the money isn't there to do that, then I think we need to look at the eee - or similar devices - as a solution to get a device in every student's hands that does at least 90% of what most students are going to do with a laptop.
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It took it that time (copied it before I clicked Add Reply). so it's not character limit - perhaps a time limit?
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Karl, others have shared that problem via the Diigo Improvements conversation (I'll invite you). I don't think it's a time limit...I've left a message window open for a LONG time and posted.
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Thanks - already part of that conversation as well, but haven't had a chance to read any of it yet . . . :-)
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Thanks for the very thorough responses Karl.
I agree with your statements -- and it's worth noting that the person making arguments against the Eee PC also isn't willing to put up the money for the other, more expensive options. The thought is basically that the only computers worth buying are those that the district IT department has tested and approved as district standard, and anything else just isn't worth getting -- even if it is much less expensive.
I totally disagree with that argument and I agree with your point -- we are talking about access -- not high-end productivity -- we can still have high-end PCs or Macs in dedicated labs for use in doing multimedia projects and things like that. But just getting the laptops into kids hands so they can develop a web-based academic/professional "work flow" for nearly everything they do should be a priority -- especially if the cost is so low.
As for going "under the radar" -- it's possible, but there is a very good chance of getting caught. District IT won't let anyone connect ANYTHING to the district network unless it a district approved piece of hardware (of course, tell that to every employee who brings their own non-district laptop to work). The Eee PC could actually be purchased quietly since the price is below the threshold for "capital expenditure" -- so it could be purchased as easily as digital cameras, scanners, and other low-cost hardware using general materials funds. But, once they are connected to the district network then the IT's "sniffers" would eventually detect their use.
Then again, there's definitely something to be said about "asking for forgiveness" vs. "asking for permission"! :)
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Well, are they willing to test it? My IT folks did - including piloting it at our sister high school for a while - and then they it made it onto our approved list. If they won't allow you to purchase anything that's not on the approved list, then I would think they are obligated to investigate anything you ask them to.
As part of that, however, they should only be evaluating it from an IT perspective - which means no judgments about not being able to run MS Office or any other particular piece of software - they should be judging it solely from a networking/IT support/durability perspective - teachers and others in the buildings who will actually use them with students should make the decision about whether they meet their functional needs. We fought that issue with some previous IT folks who are now departed - they kept asking us biased questions that had nothing to do with IT, but everything to do with their opinions on education.
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Stephaine, I'm gonig to go out on a limb and speculate that you work more on the instructional and not networking side. Let me try and share all this from "the other side". Now, I may be a rare breed in the IT world but I agree with your statement of, "just getting the laptops into kids hands so they can develop a web-based academic/professional "work flow" for nearly everything they do should be a priority". We should always focus on what is needed to make educating the kids functional.
I know many IT people either don't or don't appear to see it that way. But please understand, and if you do a middle ground will be achieved much sooner, that their job (or priority) is to ensure that the network and servers remain available at all times. I can understand how they can be slow in adopting something that is not known to work well. With so little funds and stretched resources, sometimes you're doing good just to keep the status quo working.
I think that going around regular policies or procedures and asking for forgiveness only excacerbates the trust problem and further proves the thought that "no one can be trusted". That is why many guard what is put on the network so closely.
Once again, we may be a bit different, but I always invite the opportunity to look at new things that may be better, cheaper, more effective, etc... In fact I follow this conversation with great anticipation. I think the only true valid "test" will be to put the devices in a few students hands and see what happens. However, how much money do we have to try untested solutions? Is that what tax dollars are for? It is not an easy balance to maintain. I did such a thing with NComputings XTenda devices and it worked out well. Perhaps I can do the same thing with a classroom of eeePC's and see what happens. But I have to be willing to take the blame too if it all goes south and I've spent the money unwisely.
I appreciate these conversations because it allows me to reduce that risk somewhat be a gathering of the minds.
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If you want to get IT to take your proposal seriously you need to hit them in their sweet spots:
- No software based operating system for the students to trash.
- No hard drives to crash.
- Small profile for easier storage and transport.
- "Hot swappable" using memory cards. (Machine breaks, pull the card, put it into a new machine and send the student on their way)
- Inexpensive enough to have several on hand for easy exchange.
- No loading of large quantities of MP3s, videos, spyware, viruses, trojan horses, porn, or anything else that would get the school board's knicker's in a knot.
- Wi-fi access for easy connection to network setups
I can keep going but you get the drift. Speak "tech speak" and you'll find they have a much easier time listening (in most cases.)
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Having trouble posting a response. This is try number 3 today.
At my district, we have been looking into these Ultra Mobile PCs as well. Last year, we purchased and have tested the Samsung portable but found it to be too cumbersome with parts that a separate that must be attached once the device unfolds. But it sure was fun to pull that out at a conference and have people ooh and ahh around me!
Last week, Dell announced that they will begin selling an UMPC as well starting in October. The exciting thing about their announcement to me is that it is forcing Microsoft to allow Dell to keep selling Windows XP on this device.
The Dell UMPC will also have a longer life battery that I heard may last 12-18 hours per charge.
I do want to see more of these systems in the hands of our students in their classes. I agree with Stephanie that these devices are not lab killers. I still see the desktop in use for heavy multimedia applications like video editing or high-end graphic design. These UMPCs are going to be the basic desktop publishing and Internet access systems.
But then again, I wonder how applications like Adobe Air, Google Gears, and Microsoft Silverlight will work with these systems. These are the applications for creating and programming cross-platform applications to work in the web browsers with Internet connection and without.
It will be interesting to watch as all these things collide and connect.
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Google Gears works on the eee - we have it installed (according to my CIO, he says it installed faster on the eee than on his Dell).
Adobe announced a beta of Adobe Air on Linux, so that will presumably work as well.
Silverlight - well, we'll see, but I'm not going to hold my breath. :-)
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Sharon,
I have one that I have been exploring. It is just SO different than what we are using at school. I cannot quite imagine making the change. However, I think they are amazing. It is a whole different approach to using computers, much more constructivist. It was designed with Seymour Papert's approach. The kids who use it will be different thinkers and have a sense that they can program their own computers rather than thinking that a computer is something that someone else programs and they have no clue how it is done.
Janice
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I thought you two might find something here that would be useful.
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Asus Eee conversation...welcome!
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Join our group
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The 9-inch version is supposed to hit the U.S. on May 12th for $549. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4374 . Some speculation has it that the price will drop by June or July once the initial rush is over (a la the iPhone). There's also speculation that Asus will switch to Intel's Atom processors as soon as they are available this summer, which should improve battery life and might lower cost. Here's a review of the 9-inch http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/laptops/0,39030092,49296523,00.htm
I was hoping for $499 or less - $549 is enough more that it makes it tough when competing against the $350 model, so I hope they are able to bring the price down. The larger screen - with larger resolution (wide enough to see web pages without horizontal scrolling) - and increased RAM are going to help a lot. The extra drive space is nice, but I'm not sure if it's critical for what we're planning on using them for at the moment. The only other thing that I would've liked to see is a slightly larger keyboard - even 10% larger keys would help touch-typing immensely.
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There is some interesting dialog in this diigo thread- thought you might be interested.
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Where I'm struggling with this is that I'm able to get low end laptops for the same price range. The competitive pricing is the easiest win when it comes to school IT budgets. Closing that gap makes the argument harder to make.
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Thought you might be interested in this conversation on Diigo.
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Well, I wat to thank you all. You saved me hours of research. I was just about to start research the Asus Eee when I noticed this conversation was going on. I had not yet read about the new size that came out this month that drove the price up a bit. I was thinking about the $350 model.
Since I can not get an XO - What are the direct competitors to the Asus Eee?
Thanks!
Lisa
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This is a great discussion on Asus Eee in Education. Thought you would be interested.
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There are several that are coming out. I just saw an ad in Edutopia Magazine for an HP Mini-Note PC and Dell will be coming out with one soon. Do remember that most of these are fully functional laptops, but just small. The XO is actually VERY Different. It was created for constructivist learning. In order to use it there is a lot of discovery and creation. I like it, but it is VERY different than what we do in American Education.
Janice
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